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senadin



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PostSubject: Quest database   Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:23 pm

What this guide really need is a quest database with full quests walkthrough and such. Might be a bit early for this. If i would have been smart i should have done this when i did all the quests in S1. I probably have 1/3 of the quests done in S2 now.
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Globaltech ATLAS

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PostSubject: Re: Quest database   Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:22 am

That's a good idea... a massive undertaking, but a good idea.

would have to be consistant in layout and information. I'd make a partner site for it just due to it's potential size.... possibly could include it in the current atlas and bury those pages by backdating them. The atlas really is a blog.

Would you be thinking pictures? full text writeups of the quest? mission picture screenshots?
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senadin



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PostSubject: Re: Quest database   Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:43 am

If i did it, well maybe.....i am just scared of doing it. It means i gota level another guy brand new.....so not sure yet lol
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Globaltech ATLAS

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PostSubject: Re: Quest database   Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:57 am

not really. start from where you are and move forward is the easiest and most practical. Let others fill in quests from the beginning or whenever you get around to starting a new character.

even a more technological solution something akin to a database if we are looking at pure text entry information. That I can't do but I can post text pics vids.

throw in a map of the npc locations with it and you've got yourself a pretty decent resource.
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Alco



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PostSubject: Re: Quest database   Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:46 pm

Not sure if you can, but to increase your user base, this kind of quest walk through would be amazing. But to undertake it as one individual is crazy, and probably improbable due to the fraction wheel. Make an incentive for your already created user base to do this. Quest writers can be entered into a raffle for a red chip, or a fraction T-shirt.

You already have a system where users can donate to a good review, but for a mission guide, it would be easier to have a massive collection of write ups. Than one individual, trying to undertake it.

Create a separate search for the mission write ups.


Or maybe I'm just rambling.
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Globaltech ATLAS

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PostSubject: Re: Quest database   Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:39 pm

rambling is good. always helps refine an idea.

It's quite possible and quite doable.

It is a ton of work to properly catalogue all missions and that's what we are basically talking about.

5000+ missions. Doable absolutely, but not without significant support from players.
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Sarzan



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PostSubject: Some Quest Database Ideas   Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:16 am

Yep! Player base would definitely need to help out with it to flush things out. In general most that I have seen contain the following elements:

Note: Some data elements overlap but can be eliminated once you decide on how you want things to be set up.

General Quest Data
- Quest Name
- Quest Level
- General Quest Area (sector, areas in sector)
- Experience
- If its part of a chain, links to other parts of the chain.

Data on the Quest Giver
- Name of NPC (link to NPC DB if available)
- General Area such as the town and sector for example
- Specific location in the area. If there is a /loc command to give coords, it would be listed here. Also, one could take a small pic of the overview on the map.

Data on the quest text and rewards
- Can be screen caps of the windows that pop up or can be simple text with links to the items that provide a pop up window or could just be a hyperlink. Seen both of these.

Data on the target area involved.
- Shows location involved like the map does in game. General area, specific loc if applicable and NPC links if there is a NPC database. If there isnt a NPC database. an area for NPC information.

Some also have guide text that users submit their help but this can easily be left in the comments area.
-----
Just some thoughts!
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Scenario_Nerd

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PostSubject: Re: Quest database   Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:06 pm

Here's an idea that I think would be worth considering to accomplish such an undertaking while avoiding the dreaded Faction Wheel Grind:

10 people - The "Quest Guide Guild"

Also...as a personal side note: "crazy" you say? Sounds like a challenge... Twisted Evil
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Globaltech ATLAS

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PostSubject: Re: Quest database   Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:37 pm

it is a challenge... one i'm not sure im up to.

As a single person who runs the site, I'm a bit limited in what I can do. Mapping everything took 5 months. Creating the s1 gas station waypoints took 3 days of playtime (about 12 hours).

contributing 7000+ line items to the database for s1 vendors took nearly a month as i grew weary of it.

A single player with drive can start something but all future advancements must be community based. Without community contributions and supporters, the sites and database cannot grow.

I would like to offer something like this, but I am unable to dedicate sufficient time to do so. Oh, I could do a town or two, but have to carefully balance real playtime versus site updates.

I'm here to play first and foremost and the site is secondary. I'm a player too!
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nesix



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PostSubject: Re: Quest database   Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:37 am

Globaltech ATLAS wrote:
it is a challenge... one i'm not sure im up to.

As a single person who runs the site, I'm a bit limited in what I can do. Mapping everything took 5 months. Creating the s1 gas station waypoints took 3 days of playtime (about 12 hours).

contributing 7000+ line items to the database for s1 vendors took nearly a month as i grew weary of it.

A single player with drive can start something but all future advancements must be community based. Without community contributions and supporters, the sites and database cannot grow.

I would like to offer something like this, but I am unable to dedicate sufficient time to do so. Oh, I could do a town or two, but have to carefully balance real playtime versus site updates.

I'm here to play first and foremost and the site is secondary. I'm a player too!


I'd like to make a start on this anyways. If you can provide the framework/template, I can work on the content. Frankly, I'm sick of running around trying to find NPCs and then running back and forth cuz I'm missing some component that all of a sudden I need in the middle of a quest chain out in the middle of nowhere.
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jleysack

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PostSubject: Re: Quest database   Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:35 pm

Great idea because when you hit level 44 it's hard to find quest to level up!
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PostSubject: Re: Quest database   Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:23 pm

I am about to enter s3.

I plan on cataloguing every mission i do under the tech/enforcer/traveler triad, including all vendor items, missions, town npcs and so forth. The primary goal being to make the atlas maps more 'useful' rather than just for pretty.

This is only a test as it takes an incredible amount of time to catalogue everything...a typical city map and screenies for the flash took about 6 hours each... most of the atlas maps are made up of 30 to 60 screenshots manually stitched together... ((and if i hear another person bitch about how 'useless' they are i'll scream))) the goal being to actually do every mission and map it down to details as well... rewards, ap, etc in a more current state of the game than the old ap guides.

We'll see if the results are useful.. i'm not so sure... as the missions themselves are rather self explanatory for the most part... but we have to start somewhere.

There is an option to add missions to the database, but i'm also not sure that the best format for it so am trying the atlas way of doing it... simple text and maps... providing explanations and/or pictures or video where appropriate (like finding a teeny tiny item on the bar like a ring or watch ... i really hate those missions to find something when enemies are rapidly spawning... only to die when you can't find it.)

This is something i've been thinking about alot lately and while it might be integrated into a nice shiny database at one point, that's not within my realm of possibilities and the database, while outstanding, lacks the ability for me to update adhoc and supply maps....(for those who don't know, the atlas, the database and the planner and three completely separate sites, though we do pool efforts at times, most notably under the globaltech branding) something i'd rather keep on the atlas anyways as we are maps (though i do plan on providing vendor maps still for s3 and hopefully going back to complete a couple missing town in s1 and all of s2 vendor maps)

I'm not sure our possible contributors realize the absolutely huge investment in time and effort to fully do one town like this... so i'm giving it a shot myself first.

I'll let you know the ugly results when i finish the first town. I don't expect it to be pretty, but at least the towns themselves don't have to be mapped to full size again (and yes, there are changes even tho s3 was mapped in late beta.... deal)
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Globaltech ATLAS

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PostSubject: Re: Quest database   Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:25 pm

jleysack wrote:
Great idea because when you hit level 44 it's hard to find quest to level up!

hah, this certainly won't help the early people... but it may help future generations of players.

Maybe I can get a team together for launch of s4 to help expedite some stuff, but then again, we kinda all move in the same pattern.
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nesix



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PostSubject: Re: Quest database   Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:49 am

The database is not really ready to handle the mission data right now. For now, I've been working on documenting the S1 missions on wikia. It's not the ideal format either, but it's easy to edit and jot down notes in the meanwhile. Once the DB is ready, migrating the data over wouldn't be a huge issue.

The missions in general doesn't need a lot of hand holding. To me, what's nice to know is what kind of crazy amount of mats or items would I need to be able to grind through a town? (2 hatchets? 500 ragged wool??? -- you get the idea.) Also, where the mission NPCs are located. Specific item rewards are nice, too.

The thing that drives me nuts is for any given mission line, each step could have a completely different name which makes it a huge pain to document and chain. I don't know about you, but I don't want to have to click through 10 pages of missions for an AP chain!

My other gripe is that the vendors in each town doesn't always sell the same things even though they may have the same name (ie Cooking Merchant in Town A doesn't have the same stuff as Cooking Merchant in Town B), so good luck on documenting all that. -.-
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PostSubject: Re: Quest database   Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:12 pm

the vendor part is easy... it's usually very quickly entered as a new item or cloned from others.

The big bummer is that it's exhausting to do a whole sector at once.... in any regard.

I'm actually thinking it might be easier to do a whole town, top to bottom, than do all the maps first, screenies second, all the vendors 3rd etc.

AT least it gets broken up into variety and prevents burnout.

Mission chains are a problem where they branch and only one can be 'documented' unless you come back with a second character. In some cases you may not even be aware of the branching or that you had an option to choose.

and then let them change something down the line.. adding or removing chains.. (like the engine quest for atv's in oilville specifically, but also minor changes to missions.

Perhaps a whole new website just for this?
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nesix



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PostSubject: Re: Quest database   Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:18 pm

The AP list you got is on the right track, though. Here are my ideas on how to make it better..

1. NPC Name and Location.
2. Names of the mission chain/steps (since each step can have a different name). Just a simple comment box for notes on the entire mission chain would be fine. Documenting each and every step isn't necessary since the game already gives you plenty of information *usually*. If a mission chain has branches, just a simple note would be fine, so people know that there are different ways of completing a mission chain (alternate branches can be documented later once someone else has gone through the alternate chain.)
3. List of required items. I find this would be helpful so before I leave the vault, I can bring the necessary items with me to complete the missions without having to run back to the vaults. If there is a way to query the DB on a specific item to see what are all the missions that links to it, it would be kinda cool, too. **On a side note, for a given town, if there is an auctioneer or barter/VIP vault would be good to know so if you're out and about and need to hit one of those, you can see which one is closest to you.**
4. List of associated rewards. A way to query the item to see what missions give the item as reward or which NPC (and location) sells it or which tradeskill book makes it would be just too awesome.
5. Maps or other attachments. This may be useful for long dungeons. The only example I can think of is the Casta Gaunt one where you have to crawl through tunnels to get to certain areas. A map would come in handy there.

The format can be simple, the linking is the hard part, though. But since you're already documenting all the items in game, incorporating it with the mission system makes it a lot more useful.

Let me know what you think.
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PostSubject: Re: Quest database   Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:55 pm

Kinda like this?

Smile

I've started it and it has all you mentioned (but I could make the required items bit clearer)

To be clear, this is a very separate project from the database, though I can link to items in the database that are listed.

It's main purpose is really to make the atlas more relevant and useful on it's own, though I have no qualms at all about sharing the info with the database.

I just find that the database is a bit 'databasey' and not fluid enough to handle missions/chains, well, at least not how i'd like to present them.
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nesix



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PostSubject: Re: Quest database   Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:15 am

HAHAHA. Tell you what, you're going to get reallllly reallllly bored by about the 4th town. Smile I'm about bored out of my mind at this point myself doing all that documentation on my own.

NPC icons on the map is nice, but I honestly don't think it's necessary beyond the starting NPC since the mission gives you waypoints for the remainder of the mission chain. It'll keep the map cleaner since a lot of NPCs tend to cluster. Waypoints may be more flexible, since some NPCs are kind of out in the middle of nowhere.

I kind of gave up listing how much XP you really get since it's scaled to your level. Amount of chips is nice, but I think most people consider that as a bonus and not necessarily just grinding out missions for chips.

I would suggest simplifying that more to prevent burn out from doing all that detailed documentation.

Think about it. How long did it take you to do ONE mission chain and do you want to do that 40-60 times PER town?

I was thinking of something like this for simplicy. What do you think? (Following is just a sample, not a complete chain, but what a chain might look like?)

Mission Name NPC Location Req. Item(s) Reward(s)
Midway Dilemma Mish Browning Loc=3894252, 3193323 - Shirts 1 Instructions, Dye Formula
..Rightful Masters Nicky Burns Loc=3887628, 3188671 2 Ragged Black T-Shirt, 40 Crossbow Bolt Crossbow Schematics
..Eye in the Sky Mish Browning Loc=3894252, 3193323 - -
..First Aid or Torture? Wounded Traveler Loc=3852035, 3189411 - -
..Mother Board's Documentation Wounded Traveler Loc=3852035, 3189411 - Deed to Midway, Mine Iron Manual, Basic Geology Schematics 1, 2 AP
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PostSubject: Re: Quest database   Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:59 am

i've been having internet connectivity issues with my provider, so it took waaaay longer than it should have.

I'm obsessively stupid or just obsessive, so i don't mind the documentation part.

The maps are one-off maps for each mission chain, really unneeded, but a nice visual.. so only ollies mission friends appear on ollies map... not the whole town. As people seem to delete their missions for one reason or another, they might be able to easily locate who they need to find to continue it.

The crappy part is that it's all one off and if you forget something.. it's gone....

The ATLAS has very limited resources in adjusting our design now. the center column is fixed at 410 px and cannot be adjusted without extremely extensive editing. Charts like that are nice but is not something we can accomodate... a perhaps streamlined version sure.

Send me your data and I'll be glad to post it. The current format is probably the best for the layout. Granted it's still not optimal but I seriously do not know how to improve it. I think it's the most readable and functional format for the atlas. Tell me how to improve because i'm out of ideas and spreadsheets simply do not work for the mostpart.

It's simple, focused and limited... each page only focuses on a single npc's missions. Keeping it simple. yet detailed.

Combine the goal of making the atlas a more useful site and increasing traffic with simplicity.. we may have a match... but i'm not seeing much added difficulty in listing it as is versus nearly the same information in a spreadsheet.

it just takes a lot of time. but not significantly more than a basic set of data. Mapping the coordinates is a good idea. I simply hadn't considered that as I tend to think in numbers, but it would be nice for those hard to find locations (perhaps just stuff without a big x on it)

For me it kinda is my endgame so to speak. In SWG I became a power baroness selling rads with a real live staff of up to 26 players on a mobile harvester farm of up to 150 harvesters (when we moved, we moved big). It was a niche but I got more enjoyment out of running that business that actually 'playing the pew pew' game.... same here i suppose.

The ATLAS, while 'nice' has one big problem, return visitors and there isn't enough content to warrant most coming back after the read a few guides and 'know' how to play the game. A mission listing would help with that as there would be specific information to look at at least.

So, i'm not worried about the time or effort for myself. But let me finish dieseltown and I'll let you know if I change my mind on that Razz
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nesix



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PostSubject: Re: Quest database   Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:20 pm

Hmm.. I was under the impression the site uses CSS to format its pages which would allow you a lot more flexibility.

But regardless, let me think about how to streamline that 'chart' so that it may fit into the center column. I think it's doable with a bit of creativity.

And you are correct. If you want to increase traffic flow, you need more usable data. Having a robust mission and item DB will get you there for sure.

BTW, I saw a few ppl running around with Globaltech ATLAS clan tag, is that for real or just some random clan thing?
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PostSubject: Re: Quest database   Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:44 pm

oh, it does allow alot of flexibility... i've just boxed myself in with the design of the maps and layout which just may be too much a pain to redo back into a 2 column 'blog'. Enough elements were designed for that specific width.

The Globaltech ATLAS clan is real... well, as real as a fake clan gets. It was for a giveaway of a game key for the end of days contest... join the atlas with your main or alt.

I just wanted to establish an in-game presence as well. But we don't actually 'do' anything clannish... but having an extra vault all to myself isn't a bad thing either.

A few of us chat regularly enough that's is socialable now and then.
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Gauis
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PostSubject: Re: Quest database   Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:41 pm

I'm sorry, but 90% of this game is soloable with straight forward quests. You might do detailed instance maps and such for like Kingman, but a detailed mission database? Even the hidden missions are not all that hidden... I would say updated and current AP guides would be a better use of time for someone.. but in the end it is your decision so if you do decide to good luck and have fun...
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